“Of course, they are not buying from you.”
It’s a blunt, uncomfortable truth—the kind that makes you pause and re-examine your entire strategy. In the latest episode of Sold Out Chat, hosted by our CEO, Ebony Vaz, and guest speaker Leighton Kyler, Principal & Architect of Peak Performance Paradigm, didn’t hold back.
Many leaders attribute a dip in sales to “the market,” a shifting economy, or even bad luck. But as the conversation unfolded, it became clear that the real culprit is often much closer to home. This episode wasn’t just about sales tactics; it was a masterclass in brand alignment, trust-building, and systemic efficiency. If your business is feeling the friction of stagnant growth, it’s time to stop looking at the economy and start looking at your alignment.
Key Takeaways
The Alignment Gap Rejection is rarely about the product itself; it’s about a disconnect. If your internal mission doesn’t match your external marketing, customers feel it instantly. Leighton highlighted that when there is a gap between who you say you are and how you show up, the result is an immediate “No.”
Friction vs. Flow Every customer journey has “hurdles.” Sometimes they are technical (a slow website or a confusing checkout), and sometimes they are narrative (vague value propositions). Identifying these friction points is the difference between a stalled lead and a lifelong customer.
The Psychology of the “No” A rejection isn’t always the end of the road. Often, a “no” is simply a request for more trust or clearer information. Understanding the psychology behind buyer hesitation allows you to pivot from “selling” to “solving.”
Systems Over Hustle You can’t “hustle” your way out of a broken system. By leveraging MarTech and automated workflows—core specialties of our Innovation Lab—businesses can ensure a level of consistency and follow-through that even the most talented human teams can miss during a busy season.
Human-Led Strategy While technology drives the speed and scale of your outreach, the “soul” of the brand must remain human. AI and automation should be the engine, but your unique brand story must always be the driver.
Transcript
Kchristaihne Castillo:
Hey everyone and welcome back to Sold Out Chat. I’m K, the marketing coordinator here at Above Promotions. And today, we’re tackling a question every executive needs an answer to, why they are not buying from you. We’re diving deep into the critical disconnect between your sales goals and your brand’s reputation. This isn’t about weak leads; it’s about a strategic alignment that either validates or destroys your pitch. To guide us through this high-stake conversation, we have two experts who live at the intersection of strategy and performance. First, our CEO, Ebony Vaz. Ebony’s background in engineering and data-driven research gives her a unique perspective on bridging communication gaps to ensure brand integrity drives revenue. Hi, Ebony!
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
I am so thrilled because I have known our guest for this month’s Sold Out Chat for a long time. I’m not even gonna call it the years because then that’s gonna make us seem like we’re older than what we are and we’re only like 21. So that’s another story. Anyways, I am so thrilled to have Leighton Kyler with us today. He is the principal and architect of the Peak Performance Paradigm. I mean, he has over 30 years of sales experience.
Leighton Kyler:
Okay.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Technology, organizational growth. He is a renowned expert. Companies call him up to come in and bring transformation. He merges the psychology together, but you know, you guys, you know, you guys know we like, he brings in all of the things that are needed for leadership to have the insight so that they can get the revenue generating strategies. And so when we said we are going to do a sales podcast, a sales episode, it had to be none other than Leighton Kyler. So welcome Leighton. Thank you so much for gracing us with your presence here on the Sold Out Chat.
Leighton Kyler:
I appreciate that. I was actually looking around trying to figure out who you were talking about, but okay, I got it.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Well, you know, you are like that go-to. I mean, I, you know, we would bring you into Techstars Startup Week and people who had been learning about startups had no idea what sales meant for their organization. And so that’s why it was so important for you then to be a part of the community. And so we’ve kept that relationship even going since. So let’s jump in. You know, you’re a sales trainer.
Leighton Kyler:
Please.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
You are somebody who has had the expertise to go into the big, companies, global companies, and you can drop the names if you want to, but I won’t do it because I don’t know if you can. But also you’ve had to be work the smaller businesses. So I want to know from you, what is the single biggest communication gap that you have seen when you’ve gone into these communities between the sales team and the marketing team?
Leighton Kyler:
Mm-hmm.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
What are they particularly missing? And then when you see what they’re missing, what are you doing as an exercise to help bridge that gap?
Leighton Kyler:
That’s good. And you know, I remember you told me once, you said, I’ve never heard people approach sales from the perspective that you do. and nothing has changed. So the gap is identity, is the business identity, right? Because here’s what happens. Marketing and PR, right? They gotta say, okay, here’s the strategy. This what we’re gonna do. And then they build the brand possibly around the product company to buy those things. Then the sales guys get the list. Okay, here’s what we’re going to do. But I think now I think I know the problem is in the identity, right? And that’s the law of big picture because that vision first off has to be casted. And so we all know, this is what it is. This is where we’re going. So that’s the communication gap. And so what do we do to do that? Let me go back. Why? Because it’s a mindset and a heart set. And you’ll hear me say this many times because we gotta know what we need to know, what we need to feel, then what we need to do. And marketing, as you know, that creates that emotion. And that emotion creates the flow. That’s how buying decisions happen. It’s emotional and know, stuff. If I don’t know the flow in which I’m supposed to be on that same parallel, I’m not speaking the same language. Right? It’s kind of the same family. And if you don’t know your history and your family tree, where you come from, you don’t know who you are. Right? And where we’re going. So that has to be done. So really a great solution. What I like to do is get everybody in the Get everybody together, regardless of where they are, and say, okay, who are we? What are we doing and where are we going with that? And then getting senior leadership to cast that vision. So it’s clear because somebody has to set that bar in the standard and not who knows best. Because everybody got roles, right? So there has to be leadership and then in all things and hear me in all things in all aspects of life, if there’s an issue, there’s a leadership issue that is I’ll see it right because you got to die and if that’s not there, then you can’t have the trinket and the cohesive unity.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Yeah. And I love what you said about the fact that there has to be identity, right? And then even when you said everybody thinks they know best because when sales is over here doing their thing and marketing is doing their thing, there is definitely a bit of ego that comes into it because both groups feel like they’re the ones that drive the revenue. Both groups feel like they are the ones that know the path forward. But you’re right. It has to be the leadership bringing that forth and bringing forth that identity and setting forth that path.
Leighton Kyler:
Yes ma’am.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
So how do you actually, because let’s talk about this. There’s times where the leader can cast out a great vision. Marketing and sales is on the same team, but maybe the product just is not there. It’s not to the level of the vision that the CEO has cast and that product, that service has a poor reputation, an online reputation, it sucks, their reviews are bad. Now, how do you coach a sales professional who knows that there has been some negative things that have happened, some negative reviews, some negative PR? How do you coach them to be able to pitch but without sounding reactive or defensive of their company when in the back of their mind, they know the product is crap?
Leighton Kyler:
Right, Ooh, yeah, see that’s a hard one. And why? Because it’s, there’s two pieces in there. They’re bad press, but then there’s crap product, right? So, that becomes situational because here’s an intruder, and I’m gonna get to the question, but it’s for me, it’s hard to get behind something I don’t believe in. Right? So you got crap products like, is it all crap? And I think it might be a version. Let’s, let’s, let’s, let’s qualify a little bit. We got a version there. We tried to do this upgrade. Yeah. It didn’t work out how we thought it would be. Right. And it was a complete flop. Yeah. I get that. So a couple of things. One, it’s just part of life. Right? You, you can’t see it as, okay, something I got to fit in something I got to own. first off. So if it’s true, you own it. It’s true, right? We don’t you. So most people say, OK, here’s how we’re going to do it. But you do and should be prepared for the answer. So just like in this how we cope. So in any other things, when you’re preparing, say, for this big presentation to get this deal, you go through all kind of March scenarios. You got a list of 50 questions, 100 questions. If they ask this. This is how we’re going to respond. This is how we’re going to repair. So you need to be prepared for it. However, I make it situational because it depends on that person and what the question is. So I want you never answer if it’s a bad thing, an open-ended question about something bad. Meaning people will ask you, bias will ask you an open-ended question so you can start talking. So you got to be mindful. You gotta be real slow to speak, you know, and there’s some principles on that. Be swift to listen, right? Because I have to hear what you really are asking me. What is the issue? And I would, what I do, I will ask the question by, let me make sure I understand what you’re asking me about the product. And then be prepared with answers, own it carenately, not saying anything bad. about the company and using my interpersonal skills, my relationship skills to get through it. Like, yeah. And when they asked me, yeah, they didn’t work out well for us, it? Yeah. And just, you know, bring your light for it because it’s the truth and do it. But then shifting that conversation to the high ground. But this is what we learned. This is based on us being a company with integrity and honor, as our brand says, as our reputation is, as you know. The product, the launch before this was XYZ and our customer service and things of that stuff. So this is our plan. This is how we’re moving forward and then guide that and direct that. they’re on the same page and owning it. The worst thing you can do is not own it or make excuses for it. Especially if it’s not yours. Yeah, our CEO or whoever that leadership is said, yeah, he put a apology out indicating. this to the market indicating these are the variables that were there. We have some unforeseen things. Who has not had an issue? Who has not had a problem, right? So everybody can relate to that and then shifting it also to a success story. Yeah, and so you shift it upward and then talk about your successes, then talk about the goal, talk about the plan, talk about shifting again. So what are your needs going in building that relationship? Never leaving it there. Just taking it, defusing it, owning it and walking away. Cause if you try to hold the secret, then it has power. Diffusion. Bye.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
It holds power. And something else that you said is, this is what we learned from it. that will diffuse the situation clearly because it’s like you’re on top of it. You’re, you’re, you’re addressing it and you have figured out how to overcome it. I love that statement. This is what we learned.
Leighton Kyler:
Yes.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
That is a great statement. Now in this, you mentioned like you need to be prepared. So you mean to tell me a salesperson shouldn’t just pick up the phone and start dialing and start calling. Like what is the type of research that customers and let’s talk it from a customer standpoint, not just the sales standpoint, because the salesperson needs to be prepared. But now we see because customers are very fluent with getting online and doing their research, calling up their contacts.
Leighton Kyler:
Win.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Going in LinkedIn, hitting up people that they know who may have done that. So how are we able to get a sales team prepared so that they can listen, like you said, listen, and then be able to reference any type of research that someone has done to help build that trust and strengthen that pitch for the sales team?
Leighton Kyler:
Okay, yeah people still pitch man, okay. All right
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Hahaha!
Leighton Kyler:
Um, okay, I mean, all right, so here’s the thing. I know they do, but you, gotta be prepared, right? So here’s the thing. I say this and I said this year, there’s a difference between journeyman and Eagles. Okay. Eagles have conversations. Journeyman do presentations. Right? So a lot of people are vanilla wise. I’m you know, I’m gonna date myself. This is what we got. Here’s the form. Let’s look at this.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Yes, yes, yeah, okay. Forgive the word pitch, but I know it’s yes. Yeah, yeah.
Leighton Kyler:
Oh, I can do this. I can do this. Right. Teaching. Oh yeah. but Eagles, they come in and they have conversation. The best of the salespeople. One of the things I learned very early on in selling is that, well, revenue generation, right? I put, you know, we regenerating revenue. Selling is that one off that Eagle, but we’re generating revenues. We’re taking over territories. We’re, we’re, we’re focused big picture of where we’re going. right, to owning that space. you have to first be a great storyteller, right? Because if you can’t tell a story, how are you going to keep somebody’s attention? And I got to build, and this might lead into some other conversation, but I got to be able to build trust with you in my conversation by listening to you. So one of the things I have to do is understanding your buying process. See, we begin with, okay, this is what I’m going do. I gotta align with you. I can’t have you align with me. And that’s the flaw with what people make. Okay, I’m gonna do this. The next one will do that. I align with you. I understand your process because I’m listening to you. Right? So now as I’m listening to you, I’m defining my process parallel to what you do. And so at the end of the day, we’re building a relationship as we move forward. And in that relationship, now we’re communicating about what your needs are. It’s about you. And then I have to know, if I’m talking about you, I have to know and understand what value proposition will bring you to the table. Right? What am I bringing to the table? Because value gets busy. Because if I can help you shift, you do it, that’s how I’m going to get busy. I don’t even know if I really… Answered your question in see that emotion flew in and it was like, yeah, this is good. Let’s go so and I wanted to bring it in not to go too far, but you So much goes into that. Okay, so you got ego journeyman’s you got emotional intelligence. got to read people You got to be able to really listen to what people are saying So, you know who I am, you know, I’m a kingdom man. So you you got to be able to have that discernment and pull back the layers in the middle of that conversation to really get to what is somebody really saying. See, have to, know, music is played in between the notes, right? Like if you hit a piano key, then the music goes, it’s not the keys. So you gotta really listen to what is being said, not what you wanna hear. know, salespeople get the happier, oh, I’m buying, oh, you gonna buy, you got a product, yeah, let’s go, I can do it. And they’ll never really make that mark. getting to what that buyer’s heart is, how they want to do and what they want to achieve. And that’s what we always got to listen to. We’re here to serve. Salesperson’s there to serve, to serve a need, to serve a problem, to help that business get to the level they’re trying to get to. And if I’m not there to serve, I can’t, I would never help that client do it, to get there.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
So it’s, you know, I’m pulling from what you’re saying. One, yeah, we shouldn’t say pitch, right? But two, moving from thinking about sales to revenue generating. And I mean, that’s in itself, that statement itself. You said that and I’m like, that’s a shift. I felt like that shift, like, my gosh, like.
Leighton Kyler:
You can’t, I mean, I don’t know. Okay, I get it.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
I need to be rethinking how we’re doing and not thinking so much as we’re sales, but revenue generating actions and opportunities and pathways instead of just sales. And so one of the things also too, what I think is why I’ve always loved the work that you do is because I feel like we’re kindred on being servants. you know, and being able to understand like we want to help you do what needs to be done for your business to grow for you to generate revenue because we see that you’ve got employees that you need to make sure you’re taking care of. We see that you yourself need to build wealth for your family. And so having that servant mentality, I think that really changes the level of the conversation. But I got to like drive it back to, you said, listen, listen. And I think sometimes when people are ready to sell, get, you know, pitched all the time for sales opportunities and they’re not listening, right? They haven’t even bothered to do the research. You’re trying to sell me on marketing services. Do you know who you just called?
Leighton Kyler:
Exactly. I really? Right.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
So there’s levels to this. I even pick up on when you’re saying that there’s the eagles that see above and being able to listen to someone allows you that opportunity to see above. I love it. You’re dropping all the gems for us today. And I think that all of that is not something that comes natural. It’s training, right? So how do you coach? the sales reps, the revenue generating reps, how do you coach them so that they can seamlessly integrate the brand’s established success stories? How do you help coach them to put those into conversations and help the interaction to shift from being transactional to helpful?
Leighton Kyler:
I love it. I remember I was wanting to achieve something before, right? And the person I was like, you just did it with this person. I want that. And they looked at me, Truster, hurt my feelings. They looked at his head. Man, but I had so much more to work with, you know, with that person, meaning I didn’t have all the stuff they needed to get me there. It hurt my feelings. But it taught me a lesson. And one, I just did what you said. You have to tell a story relevant to it, because storytelling is kind of like talking in parallel. So you’re talking about a person who’s sitting right there and what you’re talking about, but you’re talking about a different client. And if you can’t use words to create a picture in the mind’s eye, right? You know, that thought, feeling in that picture. And you can’t help them to create a picture in their mind, seeing themselves working with you, building with you, growing with you. Do not succeed it at what your job is. I don’t have to show you a product. I don’t have to tell you anything. I, let’s go back to identity level, right? Identity is You know, they got something that says, I remember it said, you may be the only Bible they see, or you may be the only, whatever that is, right, that represents that integrity, that represents that honor, that represents that brand, that represents whatever that is. So that person has to represent that. And whatever that branding is that you’re saying, that’s what they need to show up as. And that’s… That’s that sleeplessness of a storytelling because the storytelling and again Selling is about the big picture forming that picture, right? So it’s two things when you’re forming the picture You got to tell them and I may have said it earlier what they need to know How they need to feel then what they need to do. Okay, so if you can’t do that And that’s how you get trained up. So what do they need? You got to want your identity The business identity, who you are, because you got to put the I am before the I do. So when you show up, it’s like, this is who I am. This is my background. Let me tell you about my story and how that works with the company, right? And I’m bringing this. I remember being in a situation as a consultant and it was about a contract and they had brought me in to be a consultant and they were about to lose, it was a multi-million dollar contract and they were about to lose the contract because the vendor lost faith in the leadership in the company. And I asked them, said, yeah. And they was like, we got two ways we can do this. And I said, well, here’s a third way. Trust me. You don’t know me, right? But here’s my background. Here’s what I’ve done. Allow me an opportunity to do it this way. And here’s the strategy. And Gay laid it out and he was like, we never thought about that. Okay, we can do that. And here’s the timeline in which we can do it. So by… Constantly establishing that credibility giving stories of your experience, but you’re actually painting a picture of That vendor that client that prospect of doing business with you That’s what you’re doing. You’re giving them to see them doing business with you and if you can’t and there’s art right and you got to practice it and but if you can’t Storytell if you can’t we weave in and out of conversations and bringing people in with that. Because when you’re doing it, you’re sharing who you are, you’re sharing your values, you’re sharing your experience, and you let them know what matters to you. And what matters to you, here’s the part where they need to study, should be their value proposition, should be what their company stands for, should be what their vision is. It should be that. So you’re aligning with their values in a buying process. without them even realizing that’s what you’re aligning to. And once you do that, now we got integrity, we got trust, like, wait a minute, they do what I do. And all I did was three things. I asked open-ended questions, I listened to what they said, keyed in on three things, then I summarized it and say, this is what it is. And then for whatever miraculous reason, people are like, wow, they’re listening. They understand what I want.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Yeah. And there’s that. But but that’s there’s that’s experience. That’s that’s why people have to have a consultant with your experience, because this isn’t something I mean, people are going to listen to the podcast and that’s great. And they’re going to get these aha moments. But then there’s still this part of they have to be implement these things that you’re sharing. and it takes a lot of practice to be able to tell the story and the story that needs to be told. So let me roll into our next and our final question here is because there’s nothing new under the sun, right? There’s different iterations, but there’s nothing new under the sun. And so, people will have a product and all they want to do is try to focus on the feature. So I’ll give you an example. Right now AI, everybody wants to say, my product does AI, I use AI. Does it matter? Probably not. And what is someone is looking for? They’re looking for you to deliver a solution and not just you use AI. Ooh, that’s great. So how do you help someone or a coach of sales team coach a client and to stop relying on just some features, some things that are ear tingling in the market right now and actually build a framework to have people trust and make the conversation relevant and really position the company to stand out from everybody else that’s talking about AI.
Leighton Kyler:
Right, yeah. You know it’s funny, I go on Facebook, like you said. I mean not Facebook, I’m sorry, LinkedIn. Everybody’s selling, I’m like, wow, wow. And I’ll write back, how you doing? And just don’t say anything. How are you? How was your day, right? That’s it. So here’s the point. We talked about identity. Identity is unique, right? Identity is like the DNA of the business. So that DNA is unique. What does uniqueness transform to is a niche. So you gotta know your behavior. You gotta know your strengths, your goals, and more importantly, the purpose you serve as a business. So no business should be a me too, right? I’ll never show up. I see I’m in a room, all the sales people, everybody selling, walking around giving out cards. You know where I’m be? I’m be at the back of the room. Looking, observing, watching, monitoring. and then see the one go, right? And it’s purposeful, it’s focused, it’s intentional. Because if you’re trying to be like everybody else, be, oh, this is the trend, that’s all it is, is a trend. So when the trend, so you are chasing the market, right? Let me give a better analogy. When you look at a pie chart, 5 % of the people in 100 % are looking at. what you want, what you sell. Only 5%. How do you get to that 5 % is the key to branding, marketing, and selling, right? That’s what it is. And so you got, it used to be the numbers game, and that’s what most people pay, depending on the product. Okay, I gotta make calls, I gotta dial for dollars, and that’s what everybody do, they’re dialing for dollars. So, where everybody dialing for dollars, you flip the script and go quality over quantity. And if you’re looking for quality long-term relationships, right, you find those companies that have tradition, that have values, that are legacy companies. Generational wealth is important to them. My sons inherited the business of my family, or I started it. But what is the mission? Well, I started this and companies that share with all the employees, revenue shares and doing those things. Why? So as a people, I’m in the people business. People sell the people. We got to be relational. you know, early on, and I love it, we met, it was selling to the non-self person. Now it’s relationship selling, right, for the non-selling executive and do it. How do you ask questions into a deal? So I need to get to know you. I need to get to understand you. I need you and I. to build a relationship of trust. And how do you do that? There’s trust, friend, and worship model, but I need to do that through authenticity, right? How do I be myself? How do I come in and let you see me? And most people, and I’ll use me as an example, say, man, we love your down to earth style. I’m just gonna be me. I’m gonna show up, I’m a professional, but I like to tell jokes, why I can open people up, people get comfortable, and then you can go in there, right? And so, I’m there for a purpose. I’m there to serve a need and I’m there to understand what that is. I’m not here to sell you anything. I’m here to serve a need. And if I don’t know what need my business is serving, I can’t develop a niche. I can’t go in and not be a me too. And most people, most companies are a me too. Look at me, I got AI. Look at me, look at me. I do AI better. Okay, good. I’m happy for you. Right? But then I’m leading with features, benefits, product, this is it’s to do. But what am I mapping it to? Right? What am I mapping it to? If I don’t understand one, your buying process, go to that buying process, understand what the need, align myself with you as the buyer, as that person. I’m not, I’m not growing anything. I’m not, cause see, sales, revenue generation. goes to market growth and everything is about growth, right? How do I grow? How do I grow territory? How do I get market share? How do I find that 5 % by being parallel in behavior, mindset and values of the 5 % and then we’ll attract each other and come together. It’s kind of organic how it worked out, crazy, that’s what we have to do. We have to align ourselves with the market we’re in or that we’re going at.
Ebony Vaz, Above Promotions:
Well, you know, it’s so funny is I literally had other like sidebar questions, but every single one of them, you drop the nuggets every single time you responded, you hit every single question that I could think of in just a little bit of time. And that comes with experience and that storytelling that you do that you’ve done. even on this episode with us today has been extremely powerful. And it is no surprise as to why people call you in to be the guy to fix the issue. So thank you so much, Leighton. mean, truly, truly, truly you’re talking. I’m like making mental notes and I’m like, I got to go back and rewatch this episode. And then I got to make sure our person doing our business development watches this episode because we need to rethink how we’re doing sales and we need to think about the fact that yes, we can’t do it the same. Like you said, we have to have an identity. Like you said, we have to like focus on what the need is. So if you’re not doing any of these things, like the title of the episode is, of course they are not buying from you.
Kchristaihne Castillo:
Thank you so much for explaining how to turn a good product into a successful sale. It was a clear and helpful lesson in strategy. To quickly recap for our listeners, we defined the crucial role of internal communication in closing the sales gap, explored technical scripts for confronting negative reputation head-on, and outlined frameworks for shifting from future selling to selling trust and impact. Thank you so much for sharing your invaluable expertise with us today. We truly hope this episode has inspired our listeners to immediately audit their sales process and strategically align their entire organization. To dive deeper into marketing, technology, and strategic performance, be sure to check out our other Sold Out Chat episodes. You can find them on our Spotify or YouTube channel. And don’t forget to connect with Ebony Vaz and Leighton Kyler on LinkedIn for more thought leadership and insights. Thanks for tuning in to Sold Out Chat and until then, stay strategic and keep winning!
Conclusion
Sales friction isn’t a permanent failure; it’s a symptom of a system that needs adjustment. As Leighton Kyler reminded us, the market isn’t rejecting you—it’s rejecting the disconnect in your story or your process.
At Above Promotions, we specialize in finding and fixing those gaps. Whether through a comprehensive MarTech Audit in our Innovation Lab or strategic reputation management via our Strategic Insights Center, we help you turn “Of course they aren’t buying” into a predictable, scalable “Yes.”
Ready to find the holes in your strategy?
- Watch the full episode on YouTube here
- Book a Consultation with our Innovation Lab to audit your brand alignment and stay ahead of the curve.
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